Sums it up

**R0cketer** · December 7th, 2006, 04:19 PM

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

It doesn't say you will come to the Father through going to a particular church or by dressing a particular way or by sprinkling or baptizing.

When we say you're focusing on details and not the key. That is the key. We have hundreds if not more denominations. Details, small, most likely unimportant details, is what seperates them. Some churches think you should pay a pastor, some think you shouldn't, etc. Details.

December 12th, 2006, 01:16 PM

I never said it was through a church that you come to Jesus. If you will read again Jesus is against denominations
and division.And Yes details are important or we could Just believe in Jesus and act like we want to and make it to heaven. God thought they were important enough to include them in the Bible. So for you to say they are not important is not the right response.

**R0cketer** · December 12th, 2006, 07:09 PM

Really...so now you're judging? You presume to know the will of God, is that what you just said? Sure sounds like it to me, but I guess I'm not a preacher so I don't know.

I think it was asked multiple times, where do you preach at. Maybe we're all misunderstanding you. Maybe if some heard you minister they could better understand where you are coming from.

I mean to me it sounds like you're saying that Jesus is against division, but you're trying to divide. You may not think you are but read the responses you generate on here. I hate to tell you not everybody who responds is some sinner bound for hell, however you definitely cause division. If you don't think so, again, read the responses you get. You're trying to use details in place of our actions. Some churches will tell you that a woman wearing jeans is bound for hell. Do you think that is the difference in a Christian life or is that a detail that causes division or is man made?

**imported_ut1** · December 12th, 2006, 11:38 PM

Jesus never spoke out against denominations. He did, however, speak out against hard-heartedness and only giving lip-service to God, which the Sadduces and Pharisees were doing.
Many have different views on how we should worship God. Some feel you need to have an emotional experience each time you go to church. Others think that quiet reverence is the way to go. Still others feel an outward demonstration of works is what pleases God the most. As long as there are different people with different ideas of worship, there will be different denominations.
God is powerful enough to have done away with anything other than one unified non-denominational church if that were His choice.

December 13th, 2006, 02:02 PM

Yes Jesus did speak out against denominations... and the other things in which youe spoke about. Yes many do have different views on how to worship God... But God only has one view and we can only worship him in spirit and in truth... By the Holy Spirit and what he teaches in his Bible about worship and that is it... that is the only thing that is acceptable to him. Do you need an emotional experience to worship God... no.. there have been times that God felt very distance but I continued to worship him... it is not about the chill bumps ect; If you are saying reverence in a form of stillness and not making a peep.. well that is okay If that is acceptable to God and comes from yuor heart... he will recieve it then. Either way.. if you wish to dance before the Lord as King David did then go ahead...You say if their are different people with different ideas there will always be denominations.. that is a true statement... but is it okay though is the question. I never said thaey did noty exist.. I only stated that different teachings coming from different denominations should not exist unless they are Biblically correct.. nothing added to them or taken away from them. God has given us the power of choices but the flip side of that is this: We will reap what we sow.

**imported_ut1** · December 13th, 2006, 06:42 PM

I'm sorry, but Jesus DID NOT speak out against denominations. He spoke out about false teachings. There were no denominations to speak of in His day, and local Christian churches did not appear until after He left us with the Great Commission .
I feel just as comfortable in a Methodist or Pentacostal church as I do in a Baptist. Why? Because they all agree in Jesus as the Son of God, and that He is the only way to salvation. Their other differences are minor, and in no way interfere with God's work, except in those who will let it.

Now, James and Paul seemed to disagree on works and faith. At first glance you would think they were talking about two different things, but deeper study will help you realize they were speaking about the same thing, only in different ways from different angles.
If God is against denominations, then why do so many flourish? Surely ONLY ONE could have the TRUE message of God!
I don't think so. Reading the Bible, and then reading it and understanding it, are two entirely different things.

Do I have a better than average understanding of the Bible? While I by no means consider myself a Bible scholar, I do think that years of Bible study and Bible teaching have prepared me to have a better than average knowledge and understanding of God's Word.
At any rate, our efforts are to be directed at bringing the lost to Jesus, and leaving the confusion of the world's "church" out of our own.

**imported_trumpet1988** · December 13th, 2006, 07:52 PM

Why are there denominations today? Simple, many disagree on how the Bible should be interpreted.

Many Christians have different interpretations of the Bible such as the Catholics (YES they are CHRISTIANS), Baptists, HOliness, Methodists, Orthodox, Lutherans, etc.

I'm not saying denominations are right or wrong.

I'm Baptist. Being a Baptist isn't what gets me into heaven. Christ is what and who gets me into heaven.

That being said, I have to agree with the others, I don't see where Jesus Christ spoke out against denominations.

December 13th, 2006, 01:54 PM

I have posted another Bible teaching on this topic.. please read. How am I judging? I do not know everything about the will of God... only what he reveals to me right now... he has not revealed everything to me yet. Just because you do not preach does not mean that you cannot know the will of God... if we seek him and desire to know and do his will he will show all of us.I think I have already answered this question... I am not a Pastor of any church... I was a Youth Pastor for many years and have preached at counless churches.. I am not judging or condemning anyone or anything.. why do you insist on saying this... in what way, form, or fashion am I doing these things that yuou accuse me of? I would be willing to sit down and talk to you, just pm me. When you say it sounds like Jesus is against division.. well he is... and am I trying to divide? No I am not just trying to convey to you what the Bbile teaches and not what churches teach... Just because I get these kind of responses is not going to cause me to compromise and see your way or no one elses way... i feel strongly about this because I feel like this is what the Bible teaches... unless God changes my mind.. it is made up.I am not the judge of who is a sinner and who is not... God is.... and I only speak of Heaven and hell but I can not dictate who will go where... please show me where any division is in my statements.... I have given scripture to back up my beliefs... the Bible teaches to be ready to give an account to anyone why you believe what you believe... and as you will see.. God is against division in his church... all have different ways to salvation, baptism, ect... what you call the little things I guess.. but they are important. What does using details in place of actions mean? If a church tells you that a women wearing jeans is bound for hell... that is not the truth.. God does not jusdge by the outside but what is on the inside of the heart.The whole word of God must be taught.. the whole word.. and we must rightly divide it.God knows all of us and he knows our thoughts and intentions.. and I assure you that mine are good.

**R0cketer** · December 13th, 2006, 11:33 PM

There is none so blind as he who will not see

Read the replies you get. Read the comments you get. Go into them open mind and if you can't see where you are causing division, then may Got have mercy on you.

You say you don't understand everything but when you 'perceive' God as having revealed something to you, you think that is the end of it. If not, I can safely say that you give that illusion off.

You are just a man, be that lead by God or lead by Satan. Yes I said lead by Satan, because if you don't think that the devil can use people, even religious people, and cause them to turn others away from God, look at Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Baker, Pat Robertson, etc etc. Do I think that for the most part those guys were religious, and God-fearing? Yes I do, but did they end up causing some people to turn away from God or turn away from Christians? Absolutely. Each person is responsible for the decisions they make. You can't use the excuse of people in the church being hypocrits as your reason for not going. The biggest issue I, and I dare say others have, is that you basically say 'if you are revealed something, thats how it is and if others think differently they are wrong' and then you quote a verse or two 'off the top of your head and from your heart' that prove it. Again, go to Anchor Book Store. Go to any other Christian bookstore you want and see the different commentaries, different views on most anything said. I asked you previously about your education on the subject. Let me explain that to you. A high school graduate who took Spanish knows some Spanish. A high school graduate who went to Spain and took Spanish knows Spanish in an entirely different way. Someone who only reads translation books on Spanish knows it in a different way. Who is wrong? Neither of them. Look around at English. We have the 'Queens English', you have American English, you have hillbilly English, New York English, etc, but are they wrong? Your view/opinion on something you translate goes into the context you studied it. Someone else can study the same thing and get something completely different. I'm sure that someone who writes a book on the symbolism in Revelation thinks that they are right, but the other guy who writes one on Revelation and sees the symbolism differently thinks he is right too. Are either of them wrong? Thats something thus far you have shown an inability to do. If you see something, thats how it is and the translation you have done or the study you done proves it and otherwise is wrong.