Sums it up

[R0cketer]

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


It doesn't say you will come to the Father through going to a particular church or by dressing a particular way or by sprinkling or baptizing.

When we say you're focusing on details and not the key. That is the key. We have hundreds if not more denominations. Details, small, most likely unimportant details, is what seperates them. Some churches think you should pay a pastor, some think you shouldn't, etc. Details.

I never said it was through a church that you come to Jesus. If you will read again Jesus is against denominations
and division.And Yes details are important or we could Just believe in Jesus and act like we want to and make it to heaven. God thought they were important enough to include them in the Bible. So for you to say they are not important is not the right response.

[R0cketer]

Really...so now you're judging? You presume to know the will of God, is that what you just said? Sure sounds like it to me, but I guess I'm not a preacher so I don't know.

I think it was asked multiple times, where do you preach at. Maybe we're all misunderstanding you. Maybe if some heard you minister they could better understand where you are coming from.

I mean to me it sounds like you're saying that Jesus is against division, but you're trying to divide. You may not think you are but read the responses you generate on here. I hate to tell you not everybody who responds is some sinner bound for hell, however you definitely cause division. If you don't think so, again, read the responses you get. You're trying to use details in place of our actions. Some churches will tell you that a woman wearing jeans is bound for hell. Do you think that is the difference in a Christian life or is that a detail that causes division or is man made?

[NotSoSilentBob]

[ QUOTE ]
IIf you will read again Jesus is against denominations
and division.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that why you don't attend church?

[imported_ut1]

Jesus never spoke out against denominations. He did, however, speak out against hard-heartedness and only giving lip-service to God, which the Sadduces and Pharisees were doing.
Many have different views on how we should worship God. Some feel you need to have an emotional experience each time you go to church. Others think that quiet reverence is the way to go. Still others feel an outward demonstration of works is what pleases God the most. As long as there are different people with different ideas of worship, there will be different denominations.
God is powerful enough to have done away with anything other than one unified non-denominational church if that were His choice.

What Does God Think About the Existence of Many "Christian" Denominations?

The gospel of Jesus records that He built one church and that all saved
people were in that church. He prayed for unity and rebuked division.
Denominations as we know them did not exist till centuries later. Yet
today hundreds of denominations exist in the name of Christianity,
claiming to be Christian. They are divided and contradict one another.
This study examines the teaching of the Scriptures about the existence of
denominationalism. Introduction:

To the average person, "Christianity" includes hundreds of different
denominations that disagree with one another in name, organization,
doctrine, worship, and plan of salvation. Such a situation clearly
constitutes division, not unity. Yet all the denominations claim to be
Christian and to follow Jesus Christ.

If we really want to please God, however, we must forsake what we want
and practice what He wants.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Man's whole duty is to fear God and keep His
commands. We should be determined to do God's will, not our own.

Mat thew 16:24 - To follow Jesus one must deny himself. True religion does
not consist of what pleases us. It is entirely a question of what pleases
God.

In this study we want to consider whether or not God is pleased by the
existence of denominations. What does He really think about the religious
division that exists today? Does He want unity instead? The only way to
know what God thinks is to study His revelation, the Bible. So, what does
the Bible say about denominationalism.

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I. The Bible Concept of the Church

Ephesians 3:10,11 says the church is part of God's eternal wisdom. This
shows that the church is important to God, so we should respect His will
regarding it. What does He say should be our concept of the church, and
does denominationalism fit that concept?

A. Bible Meanings of the Word "Church" The word "church" is used two ways
in the Bible:

The church in the "universal" sense The "universal" church refers to the
body or group of all saved people everywhere. It includes all who have
been redeemed by Jesus' blood, have been forgiven of their sins, and have
been born into His spiritual family. Bible examples of this usage are:

Mat thew 16:18 - Jesus promised to build His church. The church is built
on Jesus and belongs to Him ("my church"). [Cf. 1 Cor. 3:11]

Ephesians 5:23,25 - Jesus is Head of the church, and He is Savior of His
body. He gave Himself for the church. So the church is the body of all
people who have been saved by Christ.

Acts 2:47 - The Lord added to the church those who were saved. The
"universal" church consists of all saved people everywhere because, when
God saves people, He puts them in the church. In this sense, the church
is always singular.

[See also Eph. 1:22,23; Col. 1:18,24; 1 Tim. 3:15; cf. 1 Cor. 12:12-14 to
Acts 2:38; 22:16; Mk 16:16.]

The church in the "local" sense The "local" church refers to a
congregation of Christians in a region who have united themselves to work
and worship together. According to the Bible, they have a pattern of
organization, work that they are to do, and funds they use to do this
work.

In the Bible, Christians were not just members of the universal body of
all

saved people, but they also associated themselves into local churches.
Here are some examples:

Acts 8:1 - The church which was in Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 1:2 - The church of God which was at Corinth.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 - Churches of God which were in Judea.

Revelation 1:4,11 - The seven churches of Asia.

Galatians 1:2 - The churches of Galatia.

Note that, in this local sense, the word "church" can be used in the
plural - "churches of Christ" (Rom. 16:16). Congregations existed in
different localities, but they were not religiously divided. All had the
same pattern of organization, doctrine, worship, salvation, etc.

[See also Acts 11:22; 2 Cor. 1:1; 8:1; Gal. 1:22; 1 Cor. 16:1; Rom.
16:1,4; 1 Cor. 14:33.]

B. The Denominational Concept of the Church Modern denominations include
many local congregations, and they claim there is one universal church
composed of all "saved" people. But they add something new - the
denominations. All these "saved" people in all these local churches are
now divided into denominations.

The concept of a denomination, as commonly believed today, involves all
the following elements:

* Each denomination is an affiliation or confederation consisting of a
number of local churches.

* Each denomination has its own peculiar name, doctrine, organization,
plan of worship, etc., which distinguishes it from other denominations.

* Each denomination claims it is composed of Christians, but it does not
claim to contain all faithful Christians. Each denomination believes
there are faithful children of God in other denominations. "There are
saved people in all the denominations." "We're all going to heaven, just
by different routes." "One church is as good as another." It's just a
matter of personal preference, like different kinds of cars, colors of
clothes, etc. So "join the church of your choice."

Ask any informed denominationalist, and he will confirm what we have
said. Ask: "Are there saved Christians in your denomination?" He will
say, "Yes." Ask: "Are there Christians in other denominations, who will
go to heaven?" He will say, "Yes." Ask: "Does one have to be a member of
your denomination to go to heaven?" He will say, "No." So each
denomination claims to consist of some Christians, but not all Christians.

A denominational preacher once said the following in a letter to me:

"There is only one 'holy Christian Church,' of which Christ is the Head,
but it is now made up of many denominations ... But faith in Christ is
the first criterion of membership in the holy Christian Church, and we
feel that such believers can be found in all Christian denominations."

C. Denominationalism Differs from God's Plan. God's plan involves all
saved people in one universal body, yet associated together in local
churches. Denominationalism changes God's plan by adding the concept of
denominational affiliations - associations of local churches that contain
some of the saved but not all of the saved - organizations that are more
than just local churches, but less than the universal church.
Denominations were unknown in the Bible. They constitute an addition, a
change in God's plan. Most people can easily read their Bibles and see
that this is so.

What does God think about unauthorized changes in His pattern? What
difference does it make? Will God be pleased with people who defend the
denominational concept?

Galatians 1:6-9 - Any man is accursed if he preaches a gospel different
from what is revealed in the New Testament. But denominationalism is
different from the gospel. It is nowhere authorized in the gospel.

2 John 9 - Whoever does not abide in Jesus' doctrine does not have God.
Is denominationalism part of Jesus' teaching? No! It is not revealed in
His word. Therefore, those who practice this unauthorized change have not
God! [See also Rev. 22:18,19.]

Is God pleased when people follow man's wisdom instead of His? The church
is part of God's eternal wisdom in the Bible (Eph. 3:10,11).
Denominations are not in the Bible, so they must have come from men. If
we participate in them, we are following man's wisdom, not God's. What
does God think about this?

Proverbs 3:5,6 - We must not lean on our human wisdom, but must trust in
God to guide us.

Proverbs 14:12 - There are ways that seem right to men, but their end is
death.

Mat thew 15:9,13,14 - Human traditions and commands make our service to
God vain or empty. Everything religiously which God did not plant will be
rooted up. By whose command do denominations exist? Who planted them? Not
God, but man. Hence, they make people's worship and service to God vain
and they will be rooted up.

[See also Isa. 55:8,9; Jer. 10:23; Col.3:17; 1 Cor. 1:18-25; 2:1-5.]

I have posted another Bible teaching on this topic.. please read. How am I judging? I do not know everything about the will of God... only what he reveals to me right now... he has not revealed everything to me yet. Just because you do not preach does not mean that you cannot know the will of God... if we seek him and desire to know and do his will he will show all of us.I think I have already answered this question... I am not a Pastor of any church... I was a Youth Pastor for many years and have preached at counless churches.. I am not judging or condemning anyone or anything.. why do you insist on saying this... in what way, form, or fashion am I doing these things that yuou accuse me of? I would be willing to sit down and talk to you, just pm me. When you say it sounds like Jesus is against division.. well he is... and am I trying to divide? No I am not just trying to convey to you what the Bbile teaches and not what churches teach... Just because I get these kind of responses is not going to cause me to compromise and see your way or no one elses way... i feel strongly about this because I feel like this is what the Bible teaches... unless God changes my mind.. it is made up.I am not the judge of who is a sinner and who is not... God is.... and I only speak of Heaven and hell but I can not dictate who will go where... please show me where any division is in my statements.... I have given scripture to back up my beliefs... the Bible teaches to be ready to give an account to anyone why you believe what you believe... and as you will see.. God is against division in his church... all have different ways to salvation, baptism, ect... what you call the little things I guess.. but they are important. What does using details in place of actions mean? If a church tells you that a women wearing jeans is bound for hell... that is not the truth.. God does not jusdge by the outside but what is on the inside of the heart.The whole word of God must be taught.. the whole word.. and we must rightly divide it.God knows all of us and he knows our thoughts and intentions.. and I assure you that mine are good.

Yes Jesus did speak out against denominations... and the other things in which youe spoke about. Yes many do have different views on how to worship God... But God only has one view and we can only worship him in spirit and in truth... By the Holy Spirit and what he teaches in his Bible about worship and that is it... that is the only thing that is acceptable to him. Do you need an emotional experience to worship God... no.. there have been times that God felt very distance but I continued to worship him... it is not about the chill bumps ect; If you are saying reverence in a form of stillness and not making a peep.. well that is okay If that is acceptable to God and comes from yuor heart... he will recieve it then. Either way.. if you wish to dance before the Lord as King David did then go ahead...You say if their are different people with different ideas there will always be denominations.. that is a true statement... but is it okay though is the question. I never said thaey did noty exist.. I only stated that different teachings coming from different denominations should not exist unless they are Biblically correct.. nothing added to them or taken away from them. God has given us the power of choices but the flip side of that is this: We will reap what we sow.

[imported_ut1]

I'm sorry, but Jesus DID NOT speak out against denominations. He spoke out about false teachings. There were no denominations to speak of in His day, and local Christian churches did not appear until after He left us with the Great Commission .
I feel just as comfortable in a Methodist or Pentacostal church as I do in a Baptist. Why? Because they all agree in Jesus as the Son of God, and that He is the only way to salvation. Their other differences are minor, and in no way interfere with God's work, except in those who will let it.

Now, James and Paul seemed to disagree on works and faith. At first glance you would think they were talking about two different things, but deeper study will help you realize they were speaking about the same thing, only in different ways from different angles.
If God is against denominations, then why do so many flourish? Surely ONLY ONE could have the TRUE message of God!
I don't think so. Reading the Bible, and then reading it and understanding it, are two entirely different things.

Do I have a better than average understanding of the Bible? While I by no means consider myself a Bible scholar, I do think that years of Bible study and Bible teaching have prepared me to have a better than average knowledge and understanding of God's Word.
At any rate, our efforts are to be directed at bringing the lost to Jesus, and leaving the confusion of the world's "church" out of our own.

Have you been called to preach and if so where do you minister? You remind me of one that loves to hear his own voice and not another. YOU DO NOT HEAR ANYONE ON THIS FORUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!